In this episode, we look at how a lack of education about our bodies, medical bias, and the patriarchy has impacted the uterinekind healthcare experience.
Imagine having a full-term pregnancy go unnoticed in the presence of multiple doctors and gynecologists during multiple hospital visits. How could this go unnoticed? In the end, this is a positive story, but we have some red flags to point out! Obtaining education about our own bodies is vital and could prevent stories like this!
There is a type of system that has been repeating itself throughout history for years and it’s made its way into the foundation of our healthcare. The power imbalance of being “trustworthy”, educated, and informed versus being unreliable, uneducated, and lacking in access to resources is the exact dynamic you’ll find in almost every doctor visit today. When the gynecology field has been overthrown by the patriarchy since the beginning, it isn’t hard to understand how this system has been baked into the core of women’s healthcare. Even though this isn’t exactly new, there are many being heavily affected by this system and bias against uterinekind. Listen in to figure out how this came to be and what you can do to protect your healthcare experience.
Lastly, we end on a high note! This story will take you on a journey to see how one man’s trash became an artist’s treasure!
Thanks for listening, learning, and being you. And join us back here every Tuesday for all things uterus, in service to you, uterinekind.
Carol: A person who is uneducated about their physiology is a better patient. So says Dr. Emil Novak in. The woman asks the Doctor, I'm Carol Johnson and this is Hello Uterus.
In unwell women, Dr. Eleanor Leghorn introduces Dr. Emil Nova, an American gynecologist. At first, she introduces him as a lighthouse of sorts. For those experiencing chronic pain, often loosely, likely erroneously tied to their periods, but in typical fashion, the perceived good guy turns out to be just as conditioned to believe that those with a uterus are inferior as those who came before him. Being educated about our body is crucial for managing healthcare. On today's episode, we'll take a look at the baked in patriarchal conditioning.
That is the foundation of today's healthcare system globally, but first uterus in the news, not without a side of baked in patriarchy.
An article written by Theoden Janes and published in the Charlotte Observer on November 26th, 2022, tells the remarkable story of a missed pregnancy when she was 16 years old. Erin was diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome or P C O S as it's commonly referred to. It causes a myriad of symptoms that impact all aspects of physical and mental health, including causing infertility.
She desperately wanted to conceive, but prior to her partner dying, it didn't happen and she assumed it never would. In early January, 2022 and up until October of this year, Erin explained away a lot of signs of pregnancy. Other women in Erin's family had gone through menopause early, so when she started missing her period this year, Erin just figured it was her.
She chalked up the soreness in her breasts as a menopause symptom too, because she didn't have health insurance. She wasn't seeing a doctor regularly. Even those with health insurance can blow off seeing a doctor because the expense is unpredictable and can be devastating. But anyway, midway through this past spring, She called 9 1 1 and was transported to the hospital after suffering an allergy and asthma related coughing fit so bad.
She says that I felt my stomach tear. She says the medical staff treated only her cough. Erin diagnosed herself with a hernia based on the feeling in her stomach and the fact that her belly button would periodically pop. Her mother says both of her other daughters had had umbilical hernias, and the family figured it was just genetic.
A GI specialist referred her to a gynecologist who referred her for a CT scan and an ultrasound and tests for uterine issues such as tumors, particularly since Erin has a family history of cancer. Neither of the free clinics doctors thought to check to see whether she might be pregnant. At 43 years old she was, and not only that, she was admitted the day she was diagnosed as pregnant and delivered via C-section, a full term, seven plus pound baby.
She literally had no idea stories of this happened to me and, oh, everyone has hernias and my breasts, or tender because of menopause, led to a completely missed p. It's one remarkable story, and in this case, the ending was celebrated by Erin. But this story also speaks to the continuing gating of information by the medical community and most certainly within the specialty of gynecology.
Lack of access to routine care, lack of education on our body systems, and lack of respect for the female body. Oh, and the female mind all contribute to two things that cannot be dismissed. It takes far too long to diagnose conditions in those with a uterus, and that is exacerbated by the judgment that people with a uterus don't have a need to understand their.
Now, where did that ridiculous idea come from? After a quick break, we'll head back into the fascinating book, unwell Women.
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Carol: The solution to improving women's health says Dr. Nova, a gynecologist in the 1930s lay with education, especially around body functions. He states that are enshroudeden shrouded in a mantle of mysticism, But even he couldn't get out from under the weight of conditioning around the female body. His book, the Woman asks, the Doctor published in 1935, is like dining on a buffet of gas. Lighting periods are normal, he says, and then advises against strenuous studying while menstruating.
He was appalled by tampons because women might risk their decency by submitting to intravenous manipulation . What he thought the idea of a woman touching their own vagina was improper. Oh dude. . And he also felt that an uneducated female. Was a good patient while also simultaneously telling us to get educated.
I honestly don't think that's changed much across gynecology as a whole. Learn more. Oh, not that way. Don't use Google or social media. You know, listen to your doctor. Well, patients are frustrated that doctors don't educate them, so by saying, listen to your doctor, that's kind of just like saying, Hey, dictate to me what you think I should do and don't allow me to be part of this decision making process because, you know, I'm feeble, because I'm female.
There are doctors who see the value in educating patients. We had Dr. Gra on one of our earliest shows, and she expressed her personal frustration at not having the time to educate patients. And being frustrated that as a result of that, she felt like she was letting her patients down and that they had to go and rely on social media and Google to figure out what's going on.
Because the conditions are too complex. There's so little known about them, and the doctors don't have the time to walk every patient through what these conditions are and how complex they are and answer all their questions. But there are also some doctors who still think like Nova. That it's better for patients to not know why.
I don't know. Maybe uneducated patients are less of a hassle to deal with. Maybe doctors don't have the time or patients to unwind grandma's diagnosis, or they know there's nothing they can do. Not that nothing can be done, just they can't do it. So they deal with whatever the problem. In the way they have always dealt with it and there's been no blow back, so why not?
But beneath those and the million other answers we can all come up with as to why is a foundation in medicine, no matter the country that is built by and for the patriarch. , even when it came to using tampons. If women wanted to, they better ask for permission from their gynecologist.
So we're supposed to trust our doctors implicitly. We're taught to listen to our doctors. We're taught to respect our doctors. We're taught to trust. They hold all the knowledge. It seems though that there's a serious flaw in this blind trust. The doctors don't trust us. In an article in the Guardian investigative journalist, Gabrielle Jackson, the author of Pain and Prejudice, A Call to Arms for Women and Their Bodies, Gabrielle Write, And I quote, eight of the 10 prescription drugs taken off the market by the US Food and Drug Administration between 1997 and 2000, owing to severe adverse effects caused greater health risks in women than men.
A 2018 study found this was a result of serious male biases in basic. Pre-clinical and clinical research. She continues making matters worse. Medical students are never taught about this knowledge bias. It just doesn't come up in medical schools that almost everything we know about human biology comes from the study of men and maybe just maybe the women crowding their waiting rooms, the women who they can't.
Are there not because they're hysterical or making it up or like being sick or want the attention, but because they are sick and in pain and medical science has no answers for them,
it's really, a gut punch. Eight of the 10 drugs taken off the market. Because of adverse effects caused greater problems in women than in men.
And to me that is, the problem, right? Medical science has no answers. For many of the conditions that primarily impact the female body because of decades, upon decades of not valuing the female body, especially not valuing the female, not valuing the female body beyond reproduction. So where is the curiosity?
After centuries of conditioning around the fragility and pointlessness of a female existence, unless pregnant and providing free labor, the lack of curiosity is, as I say, fully baked in. It's kind of hard to separate the butter from the eggs after the cake is baked, right? and we're really seeing that.
We are really seeing that still today. You've heard countless people, we've all heard countless people say that medical bias is real. That racial bias in medicine is real. That gaslighting and dismissing the symptoms of those with a uterus is real, that chronic conditions do go untreated and therefore pro progress because of bias.
That bias translates into a lack of curiosity, interest, and care, and that seems like a giant freaking problem when one is practicing medicine, the actual practice of care.
A few weeks ago we had Dr. Nick Fogelson a a world class excision surgeon. On Hello Uterus, and if you listen to that interview, you'll hear the words of someone who is seriously, honestly bordering on obsessively curious about the female system. As a result, he is a damn good doctor. People who choose to practice gynecology because they thought it was easy, deliver some babies.
That's so fun. The families drop off presents. Everyone's excited they're sharing pictures. Yay, joy. and then hand that off to the up and coming docs after they get tired of being on call and being at the hospital for hours and hours and hours. and then view, what they may perceive as the slowdown in their medical career.
You know, that time when you get to kick back and hand hold people over the bridge to menopause as if there's nothing that happens to the female system other than birthing. And crossing the bridge to menopause.
Sometimes I think it helps, and yet it can feel so overwhelming to do this, but take the time to consider the situations we've experienced in our own lives that are the result of a lack of curiosity about. Do people ask what we think? Do they ask for our ideas? Do they consult with us about certain rules or procedures that will have an effect on us?
are they inquiring? Are they looking at us with curiosity? Do they want to know more or do they just wanna talk at.
Are they curious? really kind of curious about anything that has to do with being female. Why would they be if they've been conditioned to think females are chaotic? Unmanageable, hard to figure out.
Emotional, hormonal, insert your null word here.
it's something that, that I've definitely seen in my life. I'm curious if you've experienced it in yours. Where have you ever, gone home after an evening out with people or. At the end of a work day or the end of your overall day and wonder to yourself, how come nobody ever asks me what I'm thinking or what I'm feeling about something.
It's almost like, people walk around the female body like, like you would walk around. An open hole in the ground that you don't wanna get too close, cuz you're afraid you'll fall in,
you know? Or a fire. You don't wanna get too close cuz you're afraid you're gonna get burned. That's what it feels like sometimes. Gabrielle nails it. In this quote, the astonishing, and I mean really, it is astonishing, right? The astonishing lack of curiosity about female illness is hidden by the great strides that have been taken in breast cancer and obstetrics.
These areas of medicine are not without their problems, but there is no doubt advancements in these fields have saved millions of lives. But women are more than reproductive machines. She nailed it. There's, you know, cancer gets all the attention, totally get it. I've lost both my parents to cancer, my mom to breast cancer.
That metastasized my dad to melanoma cancer that killed him in four weeks. Cancer is a horrible thing for anyone to experience and for the families and loved ones. Who help their, family members through a cancer diagnosis and treatment. But again, you gotta, dig a little deeper and start to look at, hmm, gosh, you know, breasts and, the ability to reproduce, Making sure that that people can get pregnant and deliver babies and that they're also able to breastfeed and I'm sure for some portion subconsciously the idea of saving breasts is really important because, you know, they're so hot or whatever, , I mean, there's like, there is a dangling gross thread that connects these stories.
Those with a uterus are problematic, not worth studying, and are best kept in the home performing unpaid labor rather than out in society. And that's not some BS from the 18 hundreds. It's all the yesterdays and today. And if we don't get really loud and demand. Things we've been conditioned to not do, it will continue.
it's really wild when it just to hear these stories, one after the other. a woman who's, who goes through an entire pregnancy and is not aware that she's. and not only is she not aware that she's pregnant, but she's actually getting healthcare. the, in the spring, right?
Probably conceived in January, in the spring, goes to the er they don't realize that she's four and a half months pregnant.
I mean that, that's like the very definition of being dismissive. Like, oh, she coughed and she thinks she tore her stomach. Let's get this one outta here fast.
it's just wild.
And then you, follow up on the research and you read the stories of people saying over and over and over again, which is why we're being repetitive today on this, on this episode, they say over and over and over again, I was not diagnosed. I was not diagnosed. I was not diagnosed, and the progressive condition continued to worse.
It's almost as if some percentage of gynecologists, likely a large percentage of gynecologists have been themselves conditioned in medical school to focus on two things, fertility and either performing a hysterectomy to bring to end. A life of problematic symptoms or get them through menopause and those problematic symptoms will go away.
And what nobody's considering in that is, is the fact that these people have as much of a right to a, a high quality of life as any other person on the.
And we don't have the data cuz who's gonna pay to, to get us this data. Right. Certainly not the nih. We don't have the data on, the sort of comparative, perspective of how often men are undiagnosed or underdiagnosed or over medicated. Compared to those with a uterus, I would bet it's, it's wildly out of balance because again, we know our stories.
I read a story today in preparation for an episode that we're going to be doing on adenomyosis about a person who struggled to get a diagnosis. the misinformation and the sort of ping pong experience that, that she had trying to get a diagnosis was shocking. Yet it's not at all shocking because that's just one story in about 500 that I've seen in the last couple months alone of people who.
Are doing their best to try to get a diagnosis, but are being completely dismissed by doctors. And one of the things that stood out in this particular story was a comment on how it was the way that she was presenting her experience that was problematic. . Oh, okay. . Oh, we didn't, we didn't tell the story properly.
I swear. recent Taylor Swift song. It's me. I'm the problem. It's me. I what Anti-Hero is the name of the song. It should be the theme song for gynecology appointments. We should just go in singing it. It's me. I'm the problem. It's me. I know that. Say it right off the top of the bat. Hey Doc, I get it. I'm the problem.
Of course inside you have to have really good boundaries and say to yourself, I know that that's nonsense. I'm not the problem. But otherwise, I don't know. Maybe, maybe by throwing that at them, they might then try to like prove us wrong. No, you're not the problem. at this point in time, I'm sure people will try anything when really all it should take is just, Hey, I've got these symptoms and they're not.
it's just a remarkable situation and no matter how many times I'm reminded through these stories, through your stories, that medical bias is real and that, that the pain isn't all in our heads and that we deserve to be diagnosed and treated. I find myself slipping back into condition mode just unconsciously.
Working hard at being agreeable, not making waves, not complaining, making sure that I smile, making sure that, that I don't have boundaries, cuz boundaries are aggressive, so don't be aggressive.
I guess if it took centuries to paint us as less than not a full and equal member of the human race, it will take persistence, repetition in getting really freaking loud to unwind that, and we will unwind it. We have to unwind it. the cool thing is that we're talking about this stuff way more than we ever have before, right?
But there is one big roadblock, and that is the system of medical education. I remember an interview that we did early on. It's probably the, the second or third episode of Hello Uterus with Dr. Evelyn Mitch. A minimally invasive surgeon gynecologist in California. I re, if I recall correctly, she was at USC and One of the 52,000 roles that she plays in addition to delivering babies and treating women doing all of the roles of a gynecologist is to go into her medical school, into her teaching institution. But she also speaks widely about this as well as a fairly young doctor and tried to unwind.
Medical bias. Can you imagine that job? I mean, on one hand it would actually be kind of fun for a day because you could just rage and get out all of your, anger and aggression. But obviously that's not what she's doing. She's successful at it. I would fail immediately because I'm, I just would want to rage, but she has to go in and unwind this.
so the good news is, is that, there is a recognition that this has to come to an end. But I mean, , you're talking about ending something that has been in place since the beginning of time. Like I said, really hard to separate the eggs from the butter and the flour after the cake is baked.
So how do we deal with this? I think the, and this is not just self-serving cuz we're building an app that helps you do this. I, you can do this in a journal, you can record it on your phone, do it however you have to do it. But you need to keep a detailed, daily record of your symptoms. And I. One of the ways to make that cool rather than a laborious task is to recognize the need for your own curiosity about your own system.
That if, if we're curious about our bodies and we take the time to understand our systems, then we're showing care to ourselves. And it will be easier for us to demand that others outside of us show that same care and respect for our system that we have. And maybe that's how this terrible situation has been allowed to fester for so long.
Because as people with a uterus, we are conditioned to believe that our primary function is to birth children. And if we can't do that, we are less.
And if we have symptoms that are, primarily focused on pain and our menstrual cycle, that that's just part of being a woman. and that, we're not as, perfectly formed as men. And we, we have these weird things that, create problems if they're even real problems and.
just deal with it. And I remember interviewing someone who was living with fibroids and she made a really amazing point that so often this, especially black women are taught that their bodies are broken because they have fibroids. Who's to determine that That's such a pass on taking responsibility for figuring out what is wrong, right?
It's like, oh, the body's broken. Oh, it's just your female system. Oh, it's because you're black, right? No. Oh, really? I don't know. Maybe it's because of a hormonal imbalance. Maybe it's because of some unknown. Situation happen happening in our female systems that the medical community has not discovered, or in the case of fibroids, they have not determined what causes fibroids.
So without that, cause there's nothing to point at except the person who has the fibroids. It must be.
And it was interesting because on one hand we always want to point out these disparities, right? Like specific to fibroids, 80% of black women will develop fibroids in their lifetime, and they will have more severe symptoms, more fibroids and larger fibroids than those who.
70% of those who are, who have a uterus, who are white will develop fibroids, but they will have less fibroids, less problematic symptoms, although certainly not a walk in the park. And those fibroids tend to be smaller. So the conditioned Unspoken opinion there is, oh, black women, just, they must be doing something wrong to, you know, have all these fibroids.
And, and in general the female system is really screwed up to, to grow these things. I mean, men don't grow benign tumors all over their body. Well, I don't know, maybe if you were curious, you could figure out what the cause is and shouldn't you be super curious about the female system because, you know, it actually does like keep the species.
And who knows what we might learn if we actually studied it. So we have to keep detailed daily records of our symptoms. And then the other thing that we need to do in order to unwind this is to take that understanding of our bodies and look at that data and connect. That this is happening in your system, and then take that data to a physician and if they dismiss that data, then you need to go find another physician.
And it will take time. It will take time, and I recommend, maybe asking for a, a phone consultation. To interview a physician before you take time off from work and go in to see them. And if they won't make time to do that, then don't go to that physician. This is our body, it's not a piece of equipment that we own. It's not a technical device, you know, computer, whatever. It's our body. and in 2022, we are still living in a time where educating people about the female system is not a priority. In fact, it's actually seen in some cases as a negative to do that, which is so insulting.
So when you connect with the data and then you bring it into your physician and you focus on that data, you will be less likely to be manipulated, you'll be better able to spot the gas lighting in your consultation because you're in control of the narrative, not the p.
So you're going in and you're saying, here's my goal, which if you haven't yet received a definitive diagnosis, might I suggest that that be your primary goal? And it's not just a diagnosis, it's a definitive diagnosis. It's not just, I've seen this 10,000 times in my practice. You have this. No, no, no, no, no.
Sorry, but there is a history here of not taking seriously the complaints of people with a uterus and a history in dismissing symptoms which are often pointing to chronic conditions that may progress ultimately to the point where you need a hysterectomy, which is not something to be. Right. So going in and controlling the narrative is super, super important.
Getting a definitive diagnosis super, super important. And one of the best ways that you can show up in front of your doctor is with data, not sitting down and trying to, tell them with your words how you're feeling because there is too great of a chance that you won't be listened to, but instead to hand over.
And say, I'm here today to get a definitive diagnosis, and you just take control of that conversation. Like a badass. If anybody wants to like role play this stuff, live on YouTube or something, I am so down with this. I'm like, we need to have a how to, well, actually in the app there is, a special podcast episode.
People who download the app that helps prep them for their doctor's appointment. But, we need this to be public and for anybody who needs it to get ahold of it. Just role playing on how to deal with, the statements that are spoken to you at a doctor's appointment and how your questions are dismissed or, shifted and how you lose control of the narrative in that environment.
So we're gonna do that. But also if you all wanna be part of that, let's go. I think it would be a blast to just do a live role playing of what our experiences are like and how we can combat them. And we will unwind it. We're gonna unwind it so you won't be alone. Hello, uterus and uterine Kind will be here for every step you take.
And we're going to, we're gonna improve this ridiculous situation, and now we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back with ending on a high note.
These are the trolls you want to find. Thomas Damo of Copenhagen Denmark is considered the world's leading recycle artist. Recycle artist. Having been taught from a young age the value of recycling, sustainability, and unlimited imagination. He then goes on to, he was a rapper for a little bit. I didn't hear any of his music, but he then goes, he's, he ditches the whole rap career and then, which is great.
I'm so glad, because you gotta see what he did. Anyway, he goes on to graduate from the Colding Design School with a master's degree in Interactive design, and then he begins a crazy journey. Of using recycled materials to create art installations, and then he turns finding them into a game. Coolest stuff ever.
So when Covid hit, I think he was out of Denmark. I think he might have been in Japan, or he was somewhere working on an installation. and part of the, one of the installations was going to be at the Olympics in Japan, and there were some other places too. China being one, I believe, and all of his installations around the world were put on hold.
So while quarantining, he got super depressed. Like clinically depressed because his passion had been taken away. His, raise on death, the thing that inspired him take, there's a double message here. I have to pause the ending on a high note to, to just go back to what we were talking about mere seconds ago.
Curiosity leads to passion. , if we're disconnected from our bodies and we don't know a lot about them, and we kind of see them, we see ourselves as sort of like only living in part of our body, or maybe not even really in our body, but kind of above our body or we're, in our body when it's in pain.
So the relationship that we have is one of pain that can. Destroy any passion for life, it can suck the curiosity out of you. and so I recognize that, there, that first leap toward taking control of your experience with, healthcare is a really, really big stretch and it causes a lot of pain and it's scary.
I hope in this story, which I'm going continue now that you find something in there, in here, in there, in his experience, in Thomas's experience that can sustain you. So remember, depressed, everything that he had worked for was shut down Covid hits. Who knows when it's gonna lift? Nothing. Looks.
And so he decided that he was going to turn his artwork into a game, into a treasure hunt, kind of like geocaching, if you remember that global game that involves hiding things and then using GPS and other tools to find them, and then you find them and you. You check, check off some piece of paper inside and you stick it back where it was so other people can go and find it.
Super fun game. But in this case, your mission is to find giant trolls hidden in the wild. And I'm not kidding you, these are giant, they're bigger than trees, they're hilarious. And also, Stunningly beautiful. And when you see them, you can't help but have your spirit lifted. The trolls are now worldwide.
They're beloved by those who find them. Although Breckenridge, Colorado had one dismantled because. Thousands of people were coming to find the troll. And, you know, to that, I wanna say Breckenridge, like, loosen up your sphincter. Okay. Because the fact that people are literally traveling to find this troll, and that's a problem.
I get it. Traffic, it's in a natural area, but you know what? Figure out a way around that rather than actually dismantling the art. Okay? We need, we need giant trolls in our life right now. We need to know that there is fun and play and creativity and curiosity and inspiration out there in the world. And anybody who tries to like clamp that down needs to be called out.
So thank you, Thomas. My goodness. You have to go check this out. His URL is his name, Thomas Damo. T H O M A s, D as in David, a M as in Mary, B as in boy. Oh, damo.com. Go. See what I mean? He has installations in Australia. There's some in the United States, and they're. They are just magical and beautiful. So I hope you get to find one in person.
And I'm just so glad people like Thomas are, are here on the planet. And you know, that's the thing. Like, it just , we alchemy, right? We're gonna, we're going to change the way. Not just, it's not like, I mean, the collective we, right, because there's a lot, there are a lot of organizations that have been working their tails off to change how people experience healthcare when they live in a female body.
And we're gonna, we're gonna change it. It's just gonna take, it's gonna take some getting loud, it's gonna take repetition and it's gonna take like, Kind of stepping, I keep talking about being fully present in your body, but also like step outside your body if you aren't experiencing these things.
Recognize that other people are, and in a lot of cases they're not talking about it to anyone, you know? So, be a, a helping hand for people who may be living with. Undiagnosed conditions that are really wreaking havoc in their lives, and at the same time, avail yourself of the magic and the beauty that's on the planet by, going on a treasure hunt to find some giant trolls in the woods.
I mean, what could be better?
I'm so glad you're here. I am so glad that we're taking on this, uh, this challenge together. And I wanna thank Angel and Maryelle for producing the podcast. And I wanna thank the team at Uterine Kind. December is going to be a busy month here. We've got great shows planned and the launch of you by Uterine Kind.
An app that will change the experience of healthcare for those born with uterus. We are so excited to share more in December as we approach our official launch date of January one, which is a great time to start the new year by getting a full, full understanding of your lived experience and learning as much as possible in the best way possible about your female.
So more to come on that. And it was great to be with you today and until next week be well, be cool, be kind.
Angel: The Hello Uterus podcast is for informational use only. The content shared here is to not be used to diagnose or treat any medical condition. Please speak with a physician about your health condition and call 911 if it's an emergency. And thank you, Uterine kind for listening.