In this episode, we are joined by founder of The White Dress Project, Tanika Gray Valbrun who shares her story of living with fibroids, how you can uplift and empower yourself living through chronic conditions, and the EmPOWERment Experience event in July for those with fibroids.
Fibroids are WAY more common than may think. Up to 80% of Black females and 70% of White females will develop fibroids.
Do you live with extreme period symptoms? Do you find yourself adjusting your life around your period? Do you leave your house with pounds of pads and clothing in case you bleed through?
Painful periods, excessive bleeding, bloating, and mental health struggles aren't normal and are signs that something is off. And you deserve a definitive diagnosis early (the Uterinekind app exists to help you with that journey!).
When dealing with intense physical and mental anguish caused by your own body, your view on life and yourself can slowly start to warp into a spiral of negativity and self-hatred. This is the last thing you need on top of all those painful symptoms.
Our guest is helping you live an empowered life with a healthy, loving relationship with your mind and body.
We are so incredibly honored to have fibroid advocate and founder of The White Dress Project, Tanika Gray Valbrun. Tanika beautifully shares her individual experience living with fibroids, teaches the importance of honoring yourself when dealing with life-disrupting symptoms, the power of sharing your own story with others, and gives us a sneak peek at The EmPOWERment Experience, hosted by the White Dress Project.
Get ready to feel empowered over your fibroids and learn how to fall back in love with yourself!
Lastly, we end on a trendsetting high note. Do you prefer moths or butterflies?
Thanks for listening, learning, and being you. And join us back here every Tuesday for all things uterus, in service to you, uterinekind.
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Shownotes:
*Visit thewhitedressproject.org for tickets to The EmPOWERment Experience in July
*Full new study on size and location of fibroids and risk of postpartum hemorrhage: www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(23)00308-3/pdf
*High note: www.goodnewsnetwork.org/193747-2/
Today we have a special episode. We are joined by Tanika Gray Valk, an award-winning journalist and the founder of the Fibroid Advocacy Group, the White Dress Project, which is having its annual event in Washington DC this July, and is a must attend for anyone living with fibroids. But Tanika brings more than just fibroid information, education, and awareness to the table.
She speaks so, Perfectly around the importance of treating yourself as a whole human that is worthy of an excellent quality of life. This conversation will leave a positive impact on anyone who is experiencing symptoms that that get in the way of them enjoying their life and being able to. Participate in just, just life without having to carry around a 52 pound bag full of pads and clothes and all of that stuff, right?
So please stay tuned for Tanika, but first, a short uterus in the news,
also fibroid related. I wanna draw your attention to a study that links fibroid location to postpartum hemorrhage and the need for packed red blood cell transfusion or otherwise known as P R bbc. In this study, there were 4,400 patients. 4.5% of those patients had postpartum hemorrhaging and required the blood transfusion.
And what they found was that, first of all, fibroid, prevalent prev prevalence. First of all, fibroid prevalence off the charts, a single documented fibroid was seen in 61.7% of patients. But here's the thing that I wanna point out to you. Fibroids located in the lower uterine segment or cervix was found in 16% of patients, and that location is a, is a factor for postpartum hemorrhaging.
The odds of postpartum hemorrhaging and P R B C were 1.49 times greater in patients with fibroids located in the lower uterine segment or cervix compared to those with fibroids in other uterine locations. However, the number of fibroids, if you had 3, 4, 5, or more, it did not have that impact. So it was, it was even if you have a single fibroid.
In the lower part of your uterus or in the cervix, you have a greater potential for postpartum hemorrhaging. And the reason why I'm isolating this, it has to do with the story that you're about to hear Tanika tell of her own experience. And it's the fact that in a lot of cases when fibroids, are. Either identified and diagnosed, or there's an assumptive diagnosis that fibroids might be what is causing your symptoms. If the doctor does not conduct imaging or hysteroscopy or some type of definitive diagnostic test to determine where those fibroids are located and you get pregnant, you may encounter complications, so please.
If you have symptoms that are consistent with fibroids, which are heavy bleeding, painful periods, a feeling of bulkiness in your pelvic area, like there's something there. bloating, not just, you know, a day of bloating before your period starts, but consistent persistent bloating. If you have these symptoms, educate yourself on fibroids and.
Get to a, a gynecologist who is experienced at, at diagnosing fibroids and will take the time to let you know exactly how many you have and where they're located. And now you know that location matters when it comes to a delivery and to the potential for postpartum hemorrhaging. it's heavy stuff, but you know what, once you know, you can kind of release anything that you feel around like, oh my gosh, now, now I have to worry about that.
It's like, Nope, you don't have to worry about it. You just gotta, gotta sort of check the boxes, which is your, your two boxes to check are, get a definitive diagnosis, if it's fibroids, have the physician tell you exactly where they are and how many you have. and then that's task done, right? All in little bits, one step at a time.
We're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, the amazing Tanika, gray Valin
Carol: Our guest today, Tanika Gray valbrun joins us for a frank conversation about fibroids and to give you a sneak peek at the Empowerment event this July in Washington DC hosted by the White Dress Project. Tanika is the founder of the White Dress Project, a fibroid advocacy group, and devotes a dizzying amount of time to helping people who are living with fibroids if she's not on the phone.
With your representatives helping push forward legislation to support female healthcare, she's hosting events around the globe to gather together those living with fibroids for education and support. I cannot imagine where we would be without Tanika and the White Dress Project. Tanika, welcome to Hello Uterus and thank you so much for being with us today.
Tanika: Hi, Carol. Thank you so much for having me. I'm, I'm so excited and honored to be here with you. Um, thank you for the invitation.
Carol: Oh, absolutely. One of many. I hope because I have, I have so much that I wanna talk to you about, and there, there hopefully will be lots of things in the future, progress happening in this space that we can get together and talk about. But for today, I'm really excited to learn about the empowerment event.
I'd like to start, especially for those who haven't heard your story before, I'd like to start with that story. If you would please share with us your personal experience with fibroids.
Tanika: Yes, absolutely. You know, Carol, I always say that, if. No one hears anything else. I, say, I always want them to hear my story because it is authentic, it is real, it's mine. no one can add anything to it. No one can take away anything. Not from my perspective. They can't. And I just want everyone to feel empowered to know that their story matters.
And you should constantly tell your story, whether about your health journey or other parts of your life. our stories are just fundamental to who we are. so I always love that, just share your story, Tanika. I love that because it's my opportunity to be authentic, my opportunity to let you know who I am and what I've gone through.
so thank you again for the opportunity. As you were talking, and describing me, I was thinking to myself like, who is this person that she is talking about? even in.
Carol: undersold you.
Tanika: No, no. But even in hearing, some of the things that I've done and just, you know, how you've observed that I live my life, I thought to myself, I feel really proud and empowered and powerful in this moment because I created what I wanted to see.
I took that Gandhi quote, that has been a staple in my life, and I, did it. I wanted to be the person that I feel like I am for so many people who are managing life with uterine fibroids. And not because I am doing anything spectacular, but I think because I am sharing my story and I am creating a space for them to also share theirs.
And I think when you're going through any health journey, a lot of times. For whatever reason, we feel like we're the only ones going through it, right? And we feel, very alone, even though we can hear stories, our family members, et cetera. But when it happens to you, it, it suddenly becomes so why me?
I, I wanted to, be a part of making sure that people understood that they weren't alone in all of this. so my journey starts around age 14 or 15. really heavy periods, bloating all the time. I was always the girl in high school and college who, you know, we gotta stop at the bathroom for Tanika.
I got probably an hour tops in the car around the road trip before I have to stop. And I just lived my life that way. Always had, bags of pads with me, extra pair of leggings, extra pair of underwear. I claim that I am the person who knows how to line a pad like no other, you know, I know how to put the one at the front, put the one at the back, make sure the middle's nice and fluffy, and you know, we're good.
And I, you know, I,
Carol: It's, we should have a competition like where pe people who, they can bring their best, MacGyver style period protection methodology to the table. I used towels in my bed and the other day somebody responded to a TikTok that I did and they, they talked about how, they and their sisters would use garbage bags.
And I was like, why did I not think of garbage bags? You know?
Tanika: disposable. Yep.
Because the towels, you know, you have to wash them, Carol,
Carol: and, and they don't. You gotta wash 'em and that, and that does not
Tanika: right.
Carol: And plus it just, yeah. I ruin so many. I think probably like my most traumatizing period of time, other than bleeding out in public, is when I would have to have a mattress picked up.
Tanika: Mm.
Carol: You buy a new mattress and you're like, oh my gosh, no. Now somebody's gonna take this mattress out in front of like, my neighbors and I, I would put mattress covers on both sides of the mattress
Tanika: Oh,
wow.
Carol: somebody would, cuz I was mortified.
Tanika: up. Yeah. I used to put tape. I would put like, um, my mom was a nurse. so I would take gauze and tape that sucker up and.
Carol: Oh wow.
Tanika: So it's, it's interesting. Yeah, it's interesting. And you're right, we should have like a powwow about all the mechanisms and strategies that people have used over the years to like hide or, you know, to feel normal and, and not let anyone find out.
And, you know, back to sharing your story, I think that's what sharing your story does as well. It, eliminates the stigma and shame that we've often associated with, reproductive health in these conditions. I went through, high school and my mom had fibroids. Fibroids weren't unfamiliar to me, but I continued to say to myself that no, I couldn't be having fibroids because I had normalized my symptoms so much.
The heavy bleeding, the bloating, the frequent urination, the pain, were all just symptoms of becoming a woman. They were all just symptoms of periods and you know, God bless you to be a woman, and that's just your plight and that's just how it's gonna be. So for a long time I just said, well, I guess this is what it is.
I guess this is how it is. I never understood, when I went shopping for pads, I was always like, who are these people wearing tampons? Like, it just didn't make sense to me that someone could, have that minimal bleeding because I was just so living in this world of, like, you bleed heavy.
You, you're clotting, you're bent over a fetal position for at least four days out of the month at least. so really my life, was planned around. my periods and I remember when I started to think about is there anything else going on. you know, doctors have often questioned me about you know, Tamika, did you really experience fibroids at 14, 15?
Well, I don't know because there were no, nobody was doing an ultrasound on me cuz I wasn't having sex, et cetera. so I, I don't, I don't know.
Carol: there were, there were no, attempts to diagnose anything in your teen years or in your early twenties.
Tanika: absolutely not at, about 20, well let me take that back. Around 21 or so. I had severe anemia and went to the
Carol: Oh, shocking. I wonder why,
Tanika: Right,
Carol: I would, I would certainly hope that no doctor was like, well, gosh, Tanika, it's so strange that you would have anemia. You look so
Tanika: right. right. But you know, women get that right, that they look healthy, they don't understand. And the crazy thing that happened was that they were like, well, we can't figure out where this heavy bleeding is coming from. Let's do A D N C. And I was like, well, that doesn't sound right. That doesn't sound like what we should be doing.
And I remember my mom being like A D N C, and then it goes into, are you having sex? And I'm
Carol: Right now all of a sudden you're in trouble.
Tanika: Exactly. Now it's all this defense of like,
Carol: Now you're not. Now you're not gonna say anything.
Tanika: right. Ever, Right. So we have this like unnecessary D N C because they can't figure out what's going on with my bleeding. And needless to say, that does not solve the issue.
but it is right at that crux, which I, I wanna make this point because I feel like so many young people potentially go through this, which is right at that crux of college and friends. And what am I gonna do with my life? I gotta get outta my mom's house soon. how am I gonna make money? It was right at that time.
So Carol, I didn't have time to deal with fibroids. I didn't have time. Like remember, I'm the self-proclaimed person who knows how to line a pad. I know when to take my Advil. I know I don't buy a car with cloth seats cuz I can't get blood out of it. I know every mattress cover under the sun. So I tell myself, oh, I know how to live with this.
Like, if you're in pain, Tanika, you didn't take your Advil soon enough, or you didn't, you know, you didn't get enough rest, or all the things you tell yourself. And I just want everybody to know whomever listens to this, that know, take those things into serious consideration and make time for your health and not, you know, the career will be there.
The opportunities to make money will be there. All the things will be there. but your health is so vital and, your body is showing you signs of, that aren't correct.
Carol: Yeah. And these conditions are progressive. So the earlier you're able to intervene, the more treatment options that you have at your disposal, and also you know, the earlier you can start researching your condition and you can start considering the things that you can control.
Things like the types of foods you eat, the types of foods that you don't eat, just all of that stuff. But what you're describing is, that very typical. You just have a bad period. So now you're gonna have to, here are all the things that you need to have at your, you know, on you at all times.
Change of clothes, extra pads, you know, all of that stuff. And then you're gonna have to manage that Another thing that's interesting about that is I think it's something that we don't necessarily pay attention to in that time. It's not even, don't necessarily, we don't pay attention to it, the mental health impact.
of always being on edge. Like, am I gonna start bleeding in this meeting and am I gonna start bleeding in science class? and what that does to you over time? it's gotta have an impact. It, it has to be impacting people's sense of security and maybe that's why we hear a lot of people report symptoms of anxiety and things like that when they're living with either diagnosed or undiagnosed chronic conditions.
Tanika: I feel like a word to describe it is. unsafe? I didn't feel safe or I felt like I couldn't trust myself. Every time I had an accident, I would say to myself like, Tanika, you know how to do this. You and, and not thinking that potentially my fibroids are growing and they're protruding into my lining more, hello?
Why I'm bleeding more. It was always my fault. It was always Tanika, you know, how to line a pad now, like why is there any blood anywhere? you start to not trust yourself. And I think it led to, just, you know, I take time to make decisions. but I feel like all of that, has added to it, and none of these things are our fault, right?
But it, it definitely adds. So all the literature around depression and, anxiety and just fear, I resonate with having, a chronic illness. And, you know, you mentioned, in science class, and I think about science class, and then I think about the boardroom and thinking about being in a boardroom with, men and being, on my cycle and thinking that there's no way that I can get up from this seat until everyone leaves.
And it's always the, all right, great meeting. Let's go to lunch, let's grab a drink, whatever. And it's like, Hey guys, you know, I'll catch up with you. Let me just stalling. You know, so it's like, what, what do all of those things do to our mental health?
Carol: I wanna know. I really do. I, I wanna know, cause I definitely feel like, you know, I'm 57, so I am, on the other side of my experience with fibroids I, in the last year I think finally gotten at the pockets of feelings and emotions that I had that still needed to be tended to.
Tanika: Yeah.
Carol: mainly learning that celiac disease, which I was undiagnosed with celiac disease for over two decades.
And the same with fibroids. And I learned last year that celiac disease researchers are saying it should be included in the a u b diagnosis. It should be considered a cause of abnormal uterine bleeding. And I was going to multiple doctors and they were just blowing me off and I never dealt with how that impacted
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Carol: And it, and I'm dealing with it now. And I gotta tell you, it's not easy. It's, it's, I feel like I, lost the opportunity to, stand up for myself and then to benefit from standing up for myself at that age and what that would've done for me, going forward. So instead, up until my mid forties when I finally got diagnosed, I was still living that You know, smile, smell pretty, don't create a fuss in anyone's world, I was living that kind of people pleasing, role where when I went to the doctors, my goal was to be a really good patient,
Tanika: Yes, yes,
Carol: not to get well,
Tanika: No, and, and Carol, I'm so glad you said that because it resonates with me. I come from a very strict Caribbean background, and we're taught that you respect the people in the white coat. You don't challenge those people. You don't ask. The doctor says they gotta go, you, they gotta go.
You don't ask questions twice. You don't ask for a referral. And I feel like it do, when you hear these moments of being dismissed, you know, you talked about the anxiety and I also feel like it brings upon feelings of rejection too. Like some, so there's some strong, you know, and I'm not, I mean, I'm dramatic on a good day, right?
But, but this is not about being dramatic or under underselling what women are truly experiencing and the mental toll that this can take. So I'm so glad you brought that up, because there is something about that reverence that we've been taught to have for physicians and it's also not to discredit them, right?
Like I didn't go to. Four years of medical school and four years of residency. And I don't know what you know, but I often say that I'm the c e o of my body. So at the end of the day, there is nobody who can tell the story of what's going on more than I can now. Couple that with your expertise and we gotta win in team.
Team, right.
Carol: Absolutely.
Tanika: But one doesn't exist without the other, I believe.
Carol: And, and to hear that I'm the c e o of my body, like, write that down. throw it on your mirror. Um, repeat it to yourself 10 times a day. Because if I had that, if that messaging was given to me when I was younger, I think there are numerous situations where I would've been better protected and better treated had I felt that I could be the c e o of my body, right.
Versus my body is really, like it's, again, smile pretty smell good, look good, get married, right? Like, and then from a gynecologic perspective, the sort of treating patients as if they are menstruate on their way to pregnancy.
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Carol: Rather than, this is a human being who's experiencing symptoms that are disrupting their quality of life and we need to get to the root cause diagnosis.
Tanika: Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, we, we must address that. Not every, person who can bear children wants to bear children. Right. doesn't make her in any way abnormal. or weird or all the things that society says that, that we should be or are. so yeah, I, I just wanted to put a pin in that because I just, feel like I resonate with that because I also had this like reverence for physicians that I felt like I just couldn't say anything.
And then we have to talk about when you are continuously stifling your voice that way, what does that do to your mental health? And now as a woman who, you know, is on the other side of it, as you say, now recognizing that, many opportunities do you feel like you've missed to stand up for yourself?
So if nothing else, we're sharing our stories so that, people can understand that they don't have to miss those opportunities, because they can stand up for theirselves. I feel like along with being the c e o of my body, these health practitioners. Are my board of directors. Right? So you need to keep your spot.
Cause we, we can interview out here. You know what I mean? Like,
Carol: Right.
Tanika: I got 'em lined up. I can call Carol, I can call my other friends and say, Hey girl, who do you have? Because this one's not working out. I always say, you know, I feel like finding a physician is like dating if our outcomes aren't aligned, if our missions aren't aligned, if we don't have the same values for what we want my body to work together to do, we gotta find somebody else.
I'm not for you and you're not for me. And I think those things can't be taken, personal. It just has to be a personal decision to know that I'm doing this for me. And any good doctor doesn't take any of that personal.
Carol: no, and and I think that's a, a really important message to send to people that don't feel like you have failed if you need to go seek out another physician. There are a lot of reasons why. Changing physicians based on your needs is a really smart thing to do. Like for instance, if you are, I've, we've said this so many times on this show, if your gynecologist is actually the obstetrician that delivered like your older siblings or your mom, and you have symptoms that are, are consistent with abnormal uterine bleeding or endometriosis or whatever the condition might be, symptoms that are out of the norm, you are best served by seeing a gynecologist that is focused on diagnosing the common chronic conditions that females live with that are often first suspected from symptoms that get blown off as bad periods.
So if you go to your obstetrician, you're probably gonna get birth control pills and you're probably gonna get an assumptive diagnosis it's because that's how their world operates.
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Carol: so when you, were having these symptoms onset early age at, 14, how long was it before you actually got a definitive diagnosis?
Tanika: Years. Years. I, you know, I had that, um, D n C at around 1920, and needless to say, that didn't solve the problem. And, but I had to keep it moving with my career. I'm a career woman. I'm in school. I wanna, you know, do all the things. So it wasn't for a few years later, I think it was around 25. That I went to the gynecologist and they said to me, have you ever heard about Uterine Fibroids?
And I was like, the thing my mom has. And they were like, well, possibly.
Carol: I.
Tanika: And they said, well, you know, we'll just watch 'em and see
Carol: before you go any further, had they, so they brought it up and they said, we're gonna watch, watch, and see, or watch and wait. Some doctors might say, did they do a hysteroscopy or an ultrasound? Had they actually spotted how many fibroids you had, where they were? No, they just, so they were like, you probably have fibroids.
We're gonna watch and see, Watch and see. What if you haven't put eyes on them,
Tanika: Exactly.
Carol: are you gonna know what,
Tanika: I remember so vividly that this was a, and pardon me for, I can't remember the, the clinical term, but it's, it's the one where they touch you on the outside of your belly. So yeah, yeah. Basically. So it's not
even,
Carol: so they did that
Tanika: it wasn't an ultrasound, it wasn't, any type of inner anything.
and my thing is like watching, to your point, watching, see what, and then two, if we're watching and seeing anything, aren't these, like the nature of these things is to do their job and grow. So like what are we, yeah, I'm not quite sure about that. So anyway, needless to say, they grew, But once again, I was living life.
I was continuing, you know, just to do what I do. I know how to manage these things or so I thought, because what you tell yourself is that the impact on quality of life is whatever. I gotta sleep for four days after my period. Oh, that, I mean, it's just my period. That's just how it goes.
Oh, I can't, wear white clothing. Oh, you know, I didn't like white anyway. I'll just wear black. Oh, I, you know, I have to change my mattress every six months. Well, you know, you tell yourself all these things I didn't have the money to buy a mattress every six months.
Like, how can that be normal? Based on what I was, I was just telling myself that to normalize my life, I didn't, you know, no one wants to feel like something is happening to them. So that, oh, that's just what it is. So anyway, the first time that a physician said something to me about doing something about fibroids was six months after I got married, went to a physician.
He said to me, Tanika, your uterus is way too compromised. there are too many fibroids. have a hysterectomy. just like that. And I said, excuse me, six months married Carol. And I, and you know what, what was so, damaging about that is that it's like my life came to a head and I said to myself like, I have done everything right, everything, whomever tells you, mommy, daddy, whomever tells you you're supposed to do, I did go to school.
Don't get pregnant. Get a good job. And then get married and have a baby. So I was at the get married stage, so all the stuff I had done before was supposedly the right stuff. And now I've done all the right things and you tell me this is my outcome. I was devastated. I was absolutely devastated. And I remember leaving his office and walking to the parking lot.
My husband was with me and literally bawling on the parking garage ground.
Carol: Oh
Tanika: And it was the most devastating thing. And that's why when I hear the stories of women in our community who talk about a doctor told me that hysterectomy was my only option, it like pains me so much. because yes, I'm not going to discredit that hysterectomy is an option for some women, especially those who elect to have it. there's literature around. Hysterectomy does not need to be, and I wanna get the literature right, so maybe I shouldn't say it, but hysterectomy does not have to be, um, the primary treatment of fibroids. It's something to that effect.
Carol: Well, it's, they're rolling back. medical colleges, acog, international Health, Groups and organizations are keying in on the large number of hysterectomies performed for benign reasons, for non-cancerous reasons of which fibroids is the number one reason for, an, uh, elective hysterectomy.
And the reason why they're kind of looking at it now is because we're seeing data come in that suggests, especially in people under the age of 50, that having a hysterectomy can lead to complications down the road, cardiovascular, early onset of dementia, loss of bone density. There's a, a variety of things and I think it's just important to remind people that specific to female healthcare, even though hysterectomies have been performed forever, even though periods have been bad forever, everything that we know about female healthcare has happened in the last seven years.
Tanika: Hmm.
Carol: All of the, the real data that we know about the female body and the basic foundational data and what we know about conditions like fibroids, that's only happened in the last seven years when, females were finally required to participate in clinical trials. and that requirement has enabled us to get a tiny, a minuscule amount of funding for basic female body research, which has never been done before.
Isn't that crazy? I mean,
Tanika: much so.
Carol: yes. The, the issue with hysterectomy is, is definitely on people's minds and, physicians are realizing we have to slow this down. We can't just, this is not a disposable organ,
Tanika: this has nothing to do necessarily with, childbearing, right? Like
Carol: right? No.
Tanika: you just wanna keep your parts.
Carol: Absolutely. And, and if there is any way possible for you, it's like when dentists say, keep your teeth right, don't, you know, keep them as long as possible because once you start losing them, everything goes sideways. The, again, we don't understand the female system. we only just realized in 2007 that the uterus is actually part of the endocrine system.
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Carol: You know, I mean, these are like the, these are dates that are not all that long ago. And so you can imagine, think about how many hysterectomies have been performed where, literally, and I was one of them, I begged my doctor after I had my second child at 42. I was like, take it out, take as a matter of fact, take it out right after I give birth.
Just go in, rip it out. And they were like, we're not doing that. And I was furious. I'm so grateful
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Absolutely not. And I wanna say that people who elect to have hysterectomies, this is not like hysterectomy bashing or anything, but the, the point is that the option should not be the only option if that is not your desire.
Carol: Absolutely. Because just knowing like the real key about sharing that information, because everyone needs to make the, their own decision for their body, right? Like Tanika says, be the c e o of your body. I, I love that. trick is to be educated about your body and so then you know, okay, I'm gonna make the decision to remove the uterus.
Should I also remove the fallopian tubes and the ovaries, or should I leave them? There's research out there that conflicts with what a lot of doctors will say. Doctors say, just take the uterus. It's like a light hysterectomy. While there's research that suggests the ovaries should probably go with the uterus
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Carol: some reason, and they don't know why.
There are less long-term complications with those who have had both the uterus and the ovaries. Removed. So, we're only just now studying this. it's more about like, if there's a potential for some kind of complication, then you can make lifestyle choices and your physicians can be watching this as you and move on posts hysterectomy, but definitely not bashing that option.
That is a, is a necessary option,
Tanika: Yeah, the point is having the education, um, so that you can make the best option for yourself. But if you don't want to, you shouldn't have to. so yeah, that's what that doctor told me that, hysterectomy was what I needed. devastated, found another doctor, a month later and she told me that, yeah, you got a lot of fibroids in there, but let's, do something about it.
And that's when I had my first myomectomy and removed, 27 fibroids. At that time it was, the most gruesome, painful recovery. I had an open myomectomy, which means I got the C-section cut from, you know, hip to hip. And it was just awful. And I was a girl. I had never broken anything, no cast, no nothing.
So this was my first, surgery and it was awful. And during that time, Carol, I literally was out of work for about 10 weeks or so, and I remember that Monday I was going back. I was like, I'm not even ready. I just started walking back up the steps and it,
it,
Carol: 10
Tanika: after
Carol: I can't imagine
Tanika: it
Carol: that what your pelvic anatomy must have looked like with 27 fibroids.
Tanika: I was always like about 125 pounds and had this protruding belly. I had learned how to dress around it. That's why black was my thing. I would never, dare wear white ever.
Carol: What a perfect segue. Segue to, to the White Dress Project. How long after your surgery did you found the white dress project?
Tanika: Well, you know, Carol, I'm a go-getter and I did it while I was in recovery. I walked in my closet and I said, you know, because when you're in recovery, you just have a lot of downtime. Your mind goes everywhere. had enough strength to like go in my closet and I looked around and I was like, I do not have any white clothing.
And I am like this self-proclaimed girly girl, love all things fashion. And so for me that realization was a big deal because like white clothing, I wanna wear it. And it dawned on me that these quote unquote benign tumors were. Taking me away from that, taking me away from that fashion moment, right? So some people may say, that's so frivolous, who cares?
You don't, can't wear white clothing, wear black clothing. But that moment sent me catapulting into, I don't have any white sheets. I don't have, oh my God, all my mattress covers are black. Oh my God, I don't have any white towels. Oh my God, I've never had white towels. I've never had cream towels, I've never had light yellow towels.
All the things that seemingly were my aesthetic or what I like, or, what they had available. All of the things came rushing to me, right? And I'm like, no, I really do. Like when I look on Pinterest and see the girls do the all white bedding and it looks so pretty and it looks so angelic in their room.
Yeah, I really do like that. And I really do like a, a pretty linen, uh, baby yellow towel in the springtime. I really do like that. So then it brought to me all of these moments of feeling like I had sold myself short, and then I just got fed up and I was just like, nobody's asked me for any money around fibroids.
No one's asked me to walk, run. No one's asked me to speak on anything. And we're conversing about all these other things, but why aren't we talking about fibroids? But the moment you say to your girlfriend, Hey girl. Yeah, this thing called fibroids, my periods are outta control. Yeah, girl, me too. Yeah. Yeah, honey, me too.
My cousin, my aunt, my sister. What? And I think that just got me going because I'm like, my mother's been talking about this. My grandmother had the, the surgery. Which, you know, you guys can't see me, but air quotes the surgery, like everybody's aunt, great-aunt has had the surgery. And I was just tired of it.
I was tired of the stigma. I was tired of thinking all the nights I wanted to spend at somebody's house and didn't, thinking about all of the cars that I've bought where I couldn't afford leather seats, but it had to be leather seats because, you know, leather seats back in the day was always the upgrade, you know, um, thinking about, you know, going to a concert and having to bring an extra bag with me where everybody else just had a little cross body and kept it moving.
So I say all of those things to say that the impact on quality of life is so pertinent to talk about because.
Carol: absolutely.
Tanika: trauma and the pain that goes along with that cannot be understated.
Carol: Yeah, it's just, sitting here and listening to you roll through that then think about the fact that fibroids affect a giant number of people worldwide in the United States. Up to 80% of black females will develop fibroids. they will arrive earlier. They will have more and larger fibroids than white females and white females up to 70%.
So we're talking about the vast majority of the female population is developing these, I love how you say so-called benign. There's nothing benign about fibroids. These non-cancerous tumors that are. Pressing on their organs, destroying their uterine integrity, creating bowel blockages. at the top of the podcast, in our uterus, in the news segment, we talked about the fact that people with fibroids lower in the uterus have a greater likelihood of post-delivery hemorrhaging, postpartum hemorrhaging, right?
These, these are, there's nothing benign about fibroids except for the fact that they're not cancerous. They cause significant physical, mental, emotional, and financial damage to people,
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Carol: like every aspect of a life is impacted by this condition.
Tanika: aspect,
and I'm glad
Carol: why is it?
Tanika: the financial Yeah, go ahead.
Carol: Oh, it's, it's, it's absolutely massive. It is massive to consider what somebody has to invest in and that just all of the period products and we pay tax on them.
Um, why is it so difficult to pass legislation regarding a condition that it affects the majority of the female population?
Tanika: Yeah. It, you know, well, we have to think about who is in our government. And our government is predominantly white males. Right? So we have to call it out like it's the elephant in the room in a lot of rooms, not in this room. Cuz I know we can talk freely about that. So, not in this room, but it's a, it is the elephant in a lot of rooms, but we have to call it what it is, right.
So a lot of times in my experience when I have had to speak with. Those white male legislators to get them to understand. I have to say, this is probably why your wife is not having sex. This is probably why your daughter is calling home from college saying she wants to come home cuz she's in pain. Like we have to address those things so that they understand this could be in my household.
Right.
And I feel that I. I really wish that women's health overall just got the honor and the respect that it deserves. Um, we're doing what we can at the White Dress Project with the, the Stephanie Tubbs Jones Uterine Fibroid Research and Education Act that has been introduced, by, Congresswoman Avette Clark and supported on the Senate side by, Senator Corey Booker and, uh, Senator Capto.
but there's so much to be done in terms of funding and in terms of actually believing, it's a mindset, believing that this condition and the impact on quality of life is grave like when you just hear me say that I have to, buy mattresses every six months. Well get a new job, Tanika become a millionaire, and, I don't know, invest in mattress stock.
You know, like it becomes, so, so I, I think it's the general, problem that we have in this country with women's health overall. I don't, I, it's not just fibroids and it's not just reproductive health, but, think of the woman's health condition that gets funded the most, and then fibroids, endo, P c o S.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Way down from that. And we already know that the, the thing that's getting funded the most in women's health is not even getting funded at a, a standard that is, comparable to some of these other disease states that are getting funded,
Carol: non-cancerous. Conditions that primarily impact females get 1% of all worldwide funding for health research. And if you add in cancerous conditions, female health research gets 5% of all the funding available, and 95% goes toward conditions that primarily impact males.
And while some of those conditions impact females as well, it's not a benefit because the research itself is male-centric. So that that funding is going toward research on, let's say, you know, uh, heart attacks, but they're studying male bodies predominantly. So the outcome of that research isn't going to impact females.
I mean, we have essentially been completely 100% shafted when it comes to funding research.
Tanika: And And that's just not Carolyn Tanika talking, right? That's documented. showing what funding has gone toward. So it's a problem. but I can't be discouraged by that. And I have to be encouraged by the fact that I need to keep telling my story and that they're gonna hear my story and then encourage other people to do the same.
And then, like I said earlier, show those moments because, you know, at, at the end of the day, you don't care about Tanika, but you do care about the woman that's living in your house, right? And the impact that it may have on her. and then some of them will say that they do care about the constituents.
So, you know, let's think about what's happening to those people. Um, but I think making it personal, and showing, I cannot stress this enough, but showing the impact on quality of life. Because if we truly understand the impact on quality of life, then we understand how it impacts the whole woman. And if we understand how it impacts the whole woman, then we understand how it is impacting business economy and data, and we understand how it's impacting our education and our school systems, but if we can't get to it impacts the whole woman and then therefore impacts the family and then therefore impacts the world, then we'll,
Carol: Then, you know what we get, what I'm terrified of. You know how just a bad period, like, oh, that's just your period. I'm terrified that we will get to, oh, that's just fibroids. Which is actually, in fact, that is,
Tanika: I, think that's
Carol: connected this before. That's, I know. I'm like, do you see what I mean?
How unpacking this can be? So, um, that is exactly what the person who was doing the ultrasound on me said when she saw when, well, she wasn't even gonna tell me that I had a fibroid. I said, what is that big thing next to that? Embryo and she said, oh, it's just a fibroid.
Tanika: It's so real, Carol. It's happening now. I had a legislator say to me one time, well, Tanika is this, is this killing anybody?
Carol: Oh my gosh. Well, yes, but
Tanika: right. But yes. But if that, if that's where we are, that, you know, the standard has to be death in order for you to even continue to converse with me about this, then we got, I mean, we got real
Carol: we got issues. We got,
Tanika: We do.
Carol: we have. Yeah. So I, you know, it's interesting, um, you've said it a few times tonight, the importance of telling your story. And I think that sometimes, like especially with social media, the prevalence of social media and. You know, everything that we're doing every day, we're constantly on messaging apps and talking to other people.
And sometimes I wonder, are we not telling our stories anymore because, because of oversharing or perceived oversharing or something like that. And I think it's important that we recognize that when you tell a story like Tanika's story could have an impact. On early diagnosis and early intervention for adolescents who might have a condition, right, you had symptoms, right?
Tanika who might have a condition. Okay, so maybe the doctor thinks it couldn't be fibroids. There's no way. Okay, cool. You can run with that, but the important thing that happens is that you get a definitive diagnosis because those symptoms are not normal, and that way you can benefit from early intervention rather than, oh, it's just a bad period.
Here's some birth control pills or whatever.
Tanika: Exactly. yeah, there, there's a lot to be done. And I wanna say about the share your story part. Now I've taken this route. to publicly share my story. You've taken the route, Carol, to publicly share your story, but I want everybody to know that if you don't take the public route, you could still share your story.
Because the way that I believe that life works is that we're all connected, right? So I believe that if I share my story in my tribe, in my girlfriend group, in my Bible study, in my, in my work, you know, group chat, then that can ultimately have a ripple effect. This is not about getting on Instagram and TikTok and sharing to the world.
It is about that for us, because that has been our platform. But I want people to be empowered to know that in any sphere of life that you are in your community, in your house. Let's start there, right? Like with your neighbor, you can have that level of impact because we're all connected. And the ripple effect will naturally happen once you decide to share.
So I, you know, we get that a lot. Like, can you guys create a private page? you know, I'll share my story with you and dm, but please don't share it with anyone else. And we honor all of those. And so this is not shaming of any of those modalities, but what we want people to know is wherever you are, share it. And also Anne for therefore, hence too, if you do decide to share publicly, that is great as well because what it does with what sharing publicly can have, um, a great impact on is breaking down this stigma and these walls that we have, that people have told us for so long that you're not supposed to talk about anything, vagina, anything, period.
Anything menstrual health, nothing pain, nothing below the belt as you alluded to earlier. Just be a classy woman and look pretty and, I mean, I can, I'm still gonna be beautiful and still share my stories the way I see it.
Carol: Yes. Oh God. I would cheer loudly, but I don't wanna hurt the eardrums of people who are listening. That is so, so well said. You know, in, in the spirit of sharing, what would you suggest to someone, as to just the, the things that they can say or the ways that they can respond to someone who they are sharing their story to or vice versa, right?
So like, if you are out, if tanika's out and you run into someone and the conversation turns to menstrual health or female health or periods and, and this person indicates that they have symptoms that need to be addressed or they have been diagnosed with fibroids, how do you engage with them? What's a good, healthy way to support someone like that and to, you know, make sure that, we're not, you know, either leading with you should do this, or, you know, any of those kinds of things.
Right. What's, what's the best way to handle that kind of personal confession?
Tanika: Yeah, I absolutely love that. And that happens to me quite a bit, um, where people want to share their stories. A a lot of it happens on social media. You know, I get like a lot of dms, Thanking us for the work that we've done, but also, Hey, can you connect me to a doctor? Hey, can you just listen to my story?
And, and the first thing I always do in person on social media is embrace and honor the fact that they're sharing it with me. Right? I think we take that for granted. Like nobody has to do anything much less share, right? So I always embrace, embrace it, and I do like a little happy dance inside because I'm like, oh my God, somebody is sharing.
And that once again, that speaks to the ripple effect that can happen. so once I embrace you, I honor, the journey that you've gotten to, to share. I applaud you for that. Then I'm excited because I get it. You're overwhelmed. You just got this diagnosis. You've never heard of this thing before.
But I am excited because I want you to know that now we have options, and if we have options and we have hope, like we, we gotta hope we can make a stew, right? And if we have, if we can make a stew, then we have food and then we'll be fed. And I just, it just feels to me that I don't want anyone to go through uterine fibroids.
I wish we could eradicate it right now, but the fact is that we're not there yet. So there will be, constant, diagnosis and people will be in this position. So I want them to know that there is, support. I want them to know that there is education and information that they can get, and I just want them to know that they're supported.
So if somebody comes up to me at the grocery store and says, Hey, this is what I'm going through, I embrace them. I honor them for sharing their journey, and I tell them that there's hope, there are options, and becoming your best health advocate is one of those that can lead you to the outcome that you want.
Now, no one said easy. No one said, no tears allowed. No one said, um, everybody will be on your side. But you have hope, you have options. You have support in groups like ours, and I honor you and embrace you for sharing your story.
Carol: Oh boy. I am so excited for empowerment in DC
Tanika: Yes.
Carol: because that, that is, so beautiful of, of a response and a way to embrace someone. And I think it's important to understand that even if you choose for whatever your reasons are, to not treat fibroids, right? If you get a fibroid diagnosis and you're like, I'm not doing anything about it, just knowing That you're not in limbo anymore around trying to understand why your body is acting so different from what you expected it to act like. Right. So just the, having that information, having someone say, I, I see it all the time, and people, they'll say, I was so relieved to get a diagnosis. I knew it wasn't just me.
I knew it wasn't in my head. I knew I wasn't broken. You know, all of those things. Um, so, you know that, that support and education, like sometimes I think we kind of discount the power of that,
Tanika: Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
Carol: Yeah. And it's, it is so powerful. Um, so let's talk about July in dc the empowerment event where I would imagine you can experience that kind of support and honoring and embracing of your whole self in person.
Tanika: Yes, you, you explained it so well, Carol. It is the honoring of our stories. It's the honoring of, we are as people who are experiencing uterine fibroids. And I want people to know that it's like the Ultimate Girls weekend too. We're not, just sitting and talking about fibroids. Because what we realized when we created the empowerment experience is that a lot of people, unfortunately, Feel like this got dumped on them, right?
So they don't wanna deal with it, they don't wanna talk about it. They don't have, the money to deal with it. They don't wanna go through treatment. but it's a space for people to feel that and know that we understand that all, and we're here to support you. So you'll get all sorts of things that touch upon the things we talked about earlier, which is the whole woman, right?
So we're gonna talk about sex and fibroids and what does that really mean for your relationships? What does that mean for the relationship that you have with your body, right? You alluded to earlier that. feeling like your body is just not on your side. And that is the complaint of so many people dealing with reproductive health issues because you just want your body to do right by you.
And when it doesn't, you have this awkward, challenging relationship with your body, um, because you're, you feel like your body has failed you somehow. so it's addressing that. It's addressing, the issues that we can have sometimes with our body. It's also addressing how do we deal with the people in our lives.
We're having sessions on that. How do we deal with the people in our lives? How do we pay for fibroid treatment options? What does this do to our mental health? We're having a cooking class on nutrition and food and how that all plays into this. so it's just rich with. Experiences that help you to think about those things as you're on this journey.
And it's not just fibroids, you know, we'll touch on reproductive health as a whole. And then Saturday night we have what is called Our Night in White Gala. and this is, it's so beautiful to see because everyone comes out in white. And by the way, if you don't have white wear what you got in your closet, this is not about, wearing white.
This is about using white clothing as a symbol of hope and empowerment. So if you don't have it, that's fine. I'll wear my white dress for you. I don't want anyone to feel that this is not the event for them because of something like that. We
wear our white, yeah, we wear our white dresses. to symbolize hope.
so yeah, it's the Ultimate Girls weekend where you will feel empowered. We bring all the best doctors from across the country who are gynecological surgeons. We bring nutritionists, we bring dieticians, mental health professionals. Uterine kind is gonna be there. We're so excited about that. latest researchers.
So every part of, the journey that you're at and the information that you want to glean, will be afforded to you. So I'm really, really excited. It's July 14th through the 16th in Washington, DC and, then we go to a winery and we have some mocktails because, you know, there has been some connection to reproductive health and alcohol.
but the point is that we want you to feel supported. And we want you to feel luxurious, so we do everything that we can in our programming to make sure you're educated, you have the resources you need, you have access to world renowned doctors, and that you have a community. That's really what we are, a community.
I created a community because I didn't wanna feel alone, and now we have a whole group.
Carol: and you did it in such a way that is respectful of the whole human it's not, sliced and diced down to your uterus, your reproductive organs, nor even just the fact that you are living with fibroids. that is part of your journey. But I wish so much that I had had the opportunity when I needed the white dress project, which was, Tanika was probably a tiny little muffin, with not a fibroid to be found. But, because, you know, the, thing that I think you really understand is that, by taking advantage of the support and the services that the white dress project offers, you know, again, will you get a myomectomy? Maybe Will your fibroids come back? Maybe I, you know, there's
Tanika: Yeah, all
Carol: there's a lot that goes on there, right?
But I bet you leave the empowerment experience, or you leave the white dress website and you engage with their resources. I bet that you love yourself more because Tanika mentioned, there's this disconnect that happens, when you're living with, super heavy periods. Painful periods, anything that takes you out, right?
Especially around reproductive organs. But people also experience this with like fibromyalgia and, you know, all of these conditions that impact females, right? We can tend to, disassociate from our bodies and we can tend to, to blame our bodies or to hate our bodies. And that has an impact on how you operate in the world, how you feel about yourself, how you create opportunity for yourself, on your relationships.
You know, and so I, I think that, providing that which you do so well is, um, the greatest gift that you can give to people. You know, they may or may not be able to afford to have a surgery, but what they can leave with is a healed sense of self. and really to fall back in love with who you are and recognize that our bodies are.
we occupy them for a very short period of time. And sometimes, sometimes things go sideways with them, but the, the full consciousness that you are is still, magical and untouched by the fibroids. And, and it's, it's what you can bring to bear in the world. And, and so Thank you, Tanika. That is really cool that you made it a girls event, a girls weekend.
You know, I just
Tanika: And I, I just wanna thank you because you're, I don't use this word to describe people often, but you are a gem, a gym, a rare gym, and I'm so glad that our paths cross, because this is why I created this organization. So you and I could have a conversation and you didn't feel alone.
And you say you're on the other side of it now, but you can tell me what that side looks like. And I feel like as long as we stay in community and have that sisterhood, then it's adding tools to all of our toolboxes. So I can say to somebody else, oh yeah, the anxiety gets better because we we're, we're, there's new stuff coming out.
Just hang on. Or I can say, you know, yeah, insurance is not paying for it right now. So like, what do we need to do? Like, are we doing a GoFundMe? Let me know. And I think it's that, that we all need, I, I, you know, I have this love hate relationship sometimes with social media where I feel like social media has caused us to feel like we're touching people and we're really not, and we're really all really disconnected.
And that's, What I want my organization to be, I want it to be real touchpoints. And I want, I want it to be removed from, um, just social media, which, which it is, but to, I want us to continue in that vein, and that's why I push for in-person events. And that's why I push for webinars because I want, we're, I want you to touch me.
I want you to feel me. I want you to know that I've walked where you've walked. And what I've often found is that when you're on the other side of it, as you say about yourself, you check out and you don't feel the need to converse with me. And you don't need to feel the need to take your time and your money and come support us at the empowerment experience.
And that is what makes you a gem because you have recognized, oh, You've recognized Carol, that even though you are quote on the other side, that there's a whole slew in army and community and sisterhood that you have the power to be a part of still. And you can influence and you can share and you can offer. And I feel like, you know, we're talking about health obviously, but that's just what people need in life, right?
Carol: right?
Tanika: so we can address it to a, uh, the health condition we've been talking about. That's just what you need in life. And
Carol: Yeah. Uh,
Tanika: so many times and I, so I just wanna say that's what makes you a gem, that you recognize, what you can offer and how you can aid, and it's not just about, you know, someone older, teaching somebody younger.
It's not that it's about, because you can be teaching someone older than you. It's about using what you have, where you are and being able to spread that. And that's what makes you a gem.
Carol: Thank you so much. I, the idea that somebody would go through what I went through today, when I went through it in, the, nineties and early two thousands, the fact that that experience could be duplicated today is, unacceptable to
Tanika: Yeah.
Carol: and I can't fathom the idea that you could just leave that behind, like it's, leave those people behind and it's, and what you're describing is I think, the way that we used to be, which was a circle, you know?
And so as people came into the circle, everybody's teaching everyone and supporting everyone. And that's, definitely, something that is needed, especially regarding female health and female life in general. And, we're at a miraculous, awesome, cool period of time where we are, we're about to step into, an evolution in technology.
Much like the internet was in the early nineties, right? Like there's a coming wave of technological advancements And so there's two things that I think are so important for us as a community to pay attention to. One is each other
Tanika: Mm-hmm.
Carol: and to make sure that we're not, we're not like, thinking everyone must know about fibroids by now.
Everybody must know what to do now with, bad periods and stuff. No, no. Practically no one does. Like that's my mo now, I just assumed. No, nobody does. And then on the other end, if we don't change the, the way female health is, treated from a funding and research perspective. Now we will skip this next evolution of technology.
Like it will again, it will, history will repeat itself and, conditions like fibroids and endometriosis and P C O S and adenomyosis, which now they're finding in very young people in adolescence. we don't get on this tech wave now, then we'll miss out again. So it's, a really good, powerful community to be a part of.
I can't think of a better way to step into this community than at the empowerment event in DC in July. Where can people register for that?
Tanika: Yes. So if everyone would go to the white dress project.org. Project.org/fam f a m, and that's for Fibroid Awareness Month. And you can register there and anyone that listens to this podcast, we can get, a discount code for you, Carol, so that you can share, with people who are listening.
Carol: Ooh, that's awesome. So we will make sure that we get that information out to you on our website in the app. Online I'm so excited to be there. I, I am counting the days Tanika. I cannot thank you enough. right now, I just wanna let you know, it is probably, what is it, about almost 10 30 at night your time, right?
Tanika, and she's been at it since probably five 30 this morning. And everything that she participates in, this is what an amazing human she is. Everything that she's involved in is, is serious stuff, serious draining stuff, you know, whether it's, it's helping people heal or as, as a journalist, we all know what is going on in the world today.
So that's the level of dedication that you've brought to the white dress project and that you bring to your life. And I gotta say, I literally, you know how you say, I'm honored to have you. I mean, I am legit honored. Beyond belief to know you as a human being.
Tanika: Oh my gosh, Carol,
Carol: So true.
Tanika: thank you.
Carol: Thank you. I think you gave some, you know, some really good tips, especially around sharing your story, whether it's public or private.
Please do it because you never know who you're helping when you share that story, and the more that we talk about this, the less people can pretend it doesn't exist.
Tanika: Absolutely. That's like a mic drop moment right there.
Carol: That's a great way for us to wrap and let you go. Enjoy a few moments of your evening. Thank you for joining us on Hello Uterus. We look forward to having you back, and we look forward to the recap after July.
Tanika: absolutely. Thank you. Good night.
Carol: Thank you. Tanika,
We'll be right back with ending on a high note.
I don't know how, how, I don't think I'm ever gonna top that conversation. I think maybe Tanika and I should host a show. Maybe we should get, we should get on the radio Tanika. but this is actually, if there was ever a competitor for something so cool that it, it could make you forget about the conversation that we just had.
It's this. Moths as trend setters. I'm not kidding you. I am not kidding you moths. moths are, are like, they're just throwaways, right? They're like, we don't, Uel and ogle over them like we do butterflies. You don't see like, you know, moth jewelry, right? You see like butterfly jewelry. Taylor Swift didn't wear jeans outside of a restaurant in New York with a giant moth on it.
It was a giant sparkly, pretty butterfly. Well, Get this, scientists have completed a vast evolutionary jigsaw puzzle in 4d, and they have discovered that butterflies originated in America around a hundred million years ago. It gets better. They determined, this is like the best thing I've ever I've ever learned.
I think outside of the stuff I've learned in health, they determined that it was a group of what they call trendsetting moths that started flying during the day rather than at night. Taking advantage of the fact that the flowers were open and they could access more nectar, and, and so they ended up co-evolving with bees and, and living this like daytime life and abandoning their nighttime life, that single event.
Moths changing from feeding at night to feeding during the day led to the evolution of butterflies. I'm not lying. I am not lying about this. And now scientists have figured it out. It, it actually, back in 2019, they, they knew the precise timing of the event. When a major part of this D N A analysis discounted some earlier theory, that pressure from bats prompted the evolution of butterflies following the extinction of dinosaurs.
But it's not accurate. It's because moths wanted to eat during the daytime. And you know what? I don't blame 'em because I mean, it's like, it's just a lot more fun if flowers are your jam, the daytime is where it's at unless you know those rare evening flowers and stuff. But in this case, if you're a cool moth and you're a trends setter, you're gonna be out in the day shining.
Shine in like a diamond. So there you have it. Butterflies owe their beauty and their life to moths. Thank you Angel for editing this podcast and producing our show. And thank you to Tanika for joining us today. Please visit the White Dress Project and. Check out the empowerment experience and I hope that we are gonna see you there.
I already feel empowered, like I feel better than I have felt in days talking to her. And this happens every time I talk to her. So get the two, the empowerment experience, courtesy of the White Dress Project and check them out on social White Dress project on Instagram and their website is fantastic.
and then come back next week for another episode of Hello Uterus. If you wanna check out the Uterine Kind app, it's free and it's in the Apple and Google Play Stores available now. It will help you, kind of relieve you of having to track your symptoms and think about stuff all the time. You don't have to think about it all the time.
You get that data down in the app in less than two minutes, and then done for the day and move on. To living your life, cuz that's why you're here. Thank you team at Uterine Kind for everything that you do to keep, keep the lights on and the app running and we will be back next week. Till then be well be cool, be kind.